Comments on: Slip up in federal filing leads to $5,000 sanction http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/ If it’s legal, you can discuss it here Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:46:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Newly Minted 2009 http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-969 Newly Minted 2009 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:35:19 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-969 that's pretty funny Mark; thanks for the laugh! that’s pretty funny Mark; thanks for the laugh!

]]> By: Mark Cohen http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-968 Mark Cohen Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:24:24 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-968 LOL! Although your comment does remind me of the software we use for HR purposes, which assumes you are acting with nefarious intent if you use the word "pretty" in a performance review (as in "a pretty good job, or "a pretty important element"). When I use the word, I invariably get asked, "Are you sure you really want to say that?" The program no doubt fails to see the humor of my mental response, which is always "pretty sure" .... LOL! Although your comment does remind me of the software we use for HR purposes, which assumes you are acting with nefarious intent if you use the word “pretty” in a performance review (as in “a pretty good job, or “a pretty important element”). When I use the word, I invariably get asked, “Are you sure you really want to say that?” The program no doubt fails to see the humor of my mental response, which is always “pretty sure” ….

]]> By: Newly Minted 2009 http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-967 Newly Minted 2009 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:18:08 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-967 Anon, maybe this is a job for Microsoft Word's "Clippy." http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Clippy-letter.PNG "It appears you're writing a motion and have included an SSN. Would you like me to: [ ] follow the FRCP [ ] notify the professional responsibility board [ ] . . . " Anon, maybe this is a job for Microsoft Word’s “Clippy.”

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Clippy-letter.PNG

“It appears you’re writing a motion and have included an SSN. Would you like me to:
[ ] follow the FRCP
[ ] notify the professional responsibility board
[ ] . . . “

]]> By: anon http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-966 anon Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:37:55 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-966 Newly, I'm guessing getting the gov to change their system might be tough. How about selling a program to law firms (like RKMC) that could scan their PDFs for SSNs to avoid sanctions and bad publicity? Newly, I’m guessing getting the gov to change their system might be tough. How about selling a program to law firms (like RKMC) that could scan their PDFs for SSNs to avoid sanctions and bad publicity?

]]> By: Newly Minted 2009 http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-965 Newly Minted 2009 Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:44:57 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-965 Well, Anon, we can shift the burden on the filers. True. But everyone makes mistakes. Particularly partners who have associates they are relying on to file things for them. Why penalize these honorable souls for simple mistakes when we could, via technology, provide a warning? I'm not kidding when I say that for $5k I could easily detect social security numbers. Any programmer worth their salt could implement this in a few dozen hours. That it hasn't been done is a testament for shifting the burden to attorneys. Now granted, the attorney must follow the FRCP; but here we have the ultimate case of where the rule is easily coded and could prevent the kind of embarrassment we see here. Ultimately I have a lot of sympathy for Vincent Moccio: there's no reason the software could detect this and warn the filer, provided the PDF is not merely an un-OCR'd scan. Well, Anon, we can shift the burden on the filers. True. But everyone makes mistakes. Particularly partners who have associates they are relying on to file things for them. Why penalize these honorable souls for simple mistakes when we could, via technology, provide a warning?
I’m not kidding when I say that for $5k I could easily detect social security numbers. Any programmer worth their salt could implement this in a few dozen hours. That it hasn’t been done is a testament for shifting the burden to attorneys.
Now granted, the attorney must follow the FRCP; but here we have the ultimate case of where the rule is easily coded and could prevent the kind of embarrassment we see here.
Ultimately I have a lot of sympathy for Vincent Moccio: there’s no reason the software could detect this and warn the filer, provided the PDF is not merely an un-OCR’d scan.

]]> By: Maury Landsman http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-959 Maury Landsman Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:36:25 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-959 If I remember correctly, there is some case law "In re Tutu Wells" in the 3rd Circuit holding that a district court cannot order sanctions paid to a non-party community organization. The case has a long history so that may not still be good law. If I remember correctly, there is some case law “In re Tutu Wells” in the 3rd Circuit holding that a district court cannot order sanctions paid to a non-party community organization. The case has a long history so that may not still be good law.

]]> By: Anon http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-960 Anon Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:38:17 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-960 One could certainly automate the system to OCR PDFs to search for SSNs and reject filings that include them. On the other hand, who wants to pay for that? (And it is certain to cost more than estimated.) Isn't it much easier to do just what the Court's done and shift the burden onto filers? RKMC is a great firm that's done very well for a long time and can afford to be the poster-child here, both financially and reputationally. One could certainly automate the system to OCR PDFs to search for SSNs and reject filings that include them. On the other hand, who wants to pay for that? (And it is certain to cost more than estimated.)

Isn’t it much easier to do just what the Court’s done and shift the burden onto filers? RKMC is a great firm that’s done very well for a long time and can afford to be the poster-child here, both financially and reputationally.

]]> By: Newly Minted 2009 http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-964 Newly Minted 2009 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:46:04 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-964 It may still work for PDFs. Some (most?) PDFs have text stored in them that can be scanned. For example, if they are generated from a word processor or other such tool. (On a Macintosh, one can print to a PDF; that preserves text.) So in that case, it would still work. If the PDF's are only images, such as from a scanner, without any optical character recognition done, then it would not be able to detect possible social security #s. It may still work for PDFs.

Some (most?) PDFs have text stored in them that can be scanned. For example, if they are generated from a word processor or other such tool. (On a Macintosh, one can print to a PDF; that preserves text.) So in that case, it would still work.

If the PDF’s are only images, such as from a scanner, without any optical character recognition done, then it would not be able to detect possible social security #s.

]]> By: ECF filer http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-963 ECF filer Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:18:45 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-963 Newly Minted, the ECF filing system requires you to file PDFs. :) Newly Minted, the ECF filing system requires you to file PDFs. :)

]]> By: Newly Minted 2009 http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/10/23/slip-up-in-federal-filing-leads-to-5000-sanction/#comment-962 Newly Minted 2009 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:14:59 +0000 http://minnlawyerblog.com/?p=3887#comment-962 Come to think of it, maybe I should just contact the Gov't and get myself some work ... ;-) Come to think of it, maybe I should just contact the Gov’t and get myself some work … ;-)

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